"Satan wins. Handily."
~ Atheist/Satanist Chaz Stevens
Well, we found out last night--there was not one warrior on the dais who stood up for free speech and this city's history of having an invocation before the meeting. It didn't matter that the Congress of the United States and the Senate leads off every meeting with one. Oh no, Lake Worth had to be "progressive." And this is why this country is in decline.
The item was pulled from the Consent Agenda for discussion by Christopher McVoy and placed at the end of New Business. I have to say that he tried to debate the subject sensibly. The mayor, who was out sick, called in to join the discussion. She gave her reasons for walking out on atheist Preston Smith because of his remarks found on-line about rape. It was all just another excuse to drive in the nail on the invocation coffin.
Commissioner Amoroso was basically silent on the subject saying at one point that he was just about an atheist himself. For a moment I saw a glimmer of hope of keeping our invocations as they have been since this city was founded, when Vice Mayor Scott Maxwell asked, "Why are we changing things? I will not roll over for that."
Maxwell's statement was short-lived and full of hot air. Maier saying it would be a "progressive" decision to follow the rotation process where each member on the dais could say his own invocation, have a moment of silent prayer or invite someone of their choosing to give an inspirational message still following the Supreme Court decision that was mentioned by the city attorney--
the commission voted...invocations as we have known them have ended.
This is NOT progressive. This is just another anti-Christian moment and it happened in our city--influenced by socialists and atheists. Hell, they even went after the Common Ground Church earlier in the year.
Our city stomped on our Constitution--they threw away Free Speech--they went against 71% of the country who are Christian even though invocations were non-denominational and only inspirational --they joined ISIS in their own narrow-minded way. The vote was 4/1 with McVoy dissenting.
Satan won last night and it's a crying shame.
33 comments:
I don't like what they did. It's wrong. Allowing a little twerp to get his way.
This sorry commission took the easy way out on a 4/1 vote. That is NOT leadership. Where in hell were the supporters of guest clergy giving the invocations? Has our city fallen that low--that politically correct? Yes they have.
fact--less and less people are christian--the church has lost over a billion people and will continue to loss people in groves-because of money laundering--cover up of rapes of children hundrens of thousands of children-criminal priest thousands and thousands of them and the criminal bishops who have cover it up for decades--that is why bishop have started to resign,because they will be going to prison
christianity is dying faster then the republican party---by now everyone has come to that conclusion unless they live under a rock
There are less Christians in the world--that is true. ISIS is killing them all in the Mid-East. Now this commission joined them in their own way. This was NOT about Christianity no matter what your personal prejudicial opinion may be.
I have ZERO respect for what those four did last night and I will NEVER lift a finger to help any one of them in any election in the future.
The entire world is going MAD. We already know the city is dysfunctional--the city manager told us that.
It's not my style to gloat ... so I will let others do it for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OMIfeBc_gk
What is that? The tail between the legs?
Good, there really is no reason to require prayer of citizens at city meetings. It simply serves to alienate people who do not share your Christian faith but want to participate in meetings. I fully support your right to pray, and you may do so before every meeting, but stop trying to make the rest of us bend to your will.
NO ONE HAS TO PRAY, anonymous. How come you are so insistent that people are making you pray? You can listen to free speech, put cotton in your ears if you are so offended. I am offended about the decisions that this commission makes--certainly not God. It is non-denominational and only an inspirational message. What the hell is wrong with all you atheists, socialists and progressives?
This has been in effect for 75 years or more in this city. I am not making anyone "bend to my will." That is about the most stupid comment I have ever heard.
Really, my last comment here... As this matter is closed, until we file suit.
It's all about Christian privilege ... when SCOTUS passed this ruling, I recognized the opportunity to expose how the Christian majority rules ... it's our ball, and if we don't want to hear what you have to say, then we're gonna take it and go home.
Next up, our war on Christmas begins! Stay tuned.
Well, good luck with a lawsuit. The city attorney said last night that your original request last year somehow "fell through the cracks." Of course, no one believes that but it is up to you to prove differently.
I find it interesting that most of the commentators here think this is a failure. You will still have clergy providing the invocation when a commissioner requests them to or they will provide one themselves or they can choose a moment of silence. I think this is a good compromise as did Comm. Maier. Kudos to him for finding common ground.
Perhaps you mis-heard... Invocation remain in place - they now will be offered on a rotating basis by each commissioner and the Mayor. Should a commissioner or Mayor choose to select another to offer an invocation, they as well as every commissioner or Mayor will have to abide within the guideline the U.S. Supreme Court ruling provides...
In the 5-4 ruling, justice Anthony Kennedy who wrote the ruling, emphasize the importance of inclusion, while laying a fence around what is not to occur... Like denigrating or mocking anyone's religion or belief, attempting to proselytize, convert audience to their religion, or offering damnation of other beliefs systems.
Civic life cannot condone or endorse a particular faith; that being said, what the commission did last night still guarantees the the public forum "need not become a religion-free zone", in the words of Justice Elena Kagan.
While we have the guarantee of fee speech along with freedom of religion, we are like a couple thousand other jurisdictions thinking about how to do this constitutionally and not pay lawyers a total money to defend what we do. At the end of the day unfortunately you cannot unring a bell once rung, and the reality is, giving anyone a microphone in a public meeting means you give up any control as to what they will say.
I'd be far more worried about comments made by Commissioner Maier after his snarky remarks and discounting sexual assault especially upon a child. Our Mayor and others walked out on athiest Smith because of his tweeted comments saying "I'd hit that and make her my wifey, after all, god said:" " Lonely? Need a companion? Take any hot virgin and get a wife. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - God". Smith was talking with conservative critic, Mr. C. Steven Tucker, who is not shy about sharing his feelings about Obama and the ACA. Athiest Smith took offense and then hunted down Mr Tucker's wife's Twitter account, and made the threatening comments above in a tweet to the man's young teen age daughter, and then preverted the referenced Bible verse (Deuteronomy 22:28–29) that talks about how someone who rapes a virgin must marry her.
Mr Maier, you sir are an ass. This level of flippant disrespect and discounting sexual
assailt and rape, especially upon minors is vile and sick. This will not be forgotten should you choose to run for reelection.
Mr Maier if you are so concerned about the piece of crap Athiest Smith' opportunity to provide an invocation, then you may select him to offer in your place. won't that make for a grand political statement. One surely not lost on your long suffering constituents.
If you are a conservative and someone says things you disagree with, you listen to them and disagree with them. If a progressive hears things he disagrees with, he immediately takes steps to shut down the speech.
For 75 years, most atheists or agnostic or hindu or festivus believers respectfully stood (not sat) and listened. Now this progressive butt-plug doesn't like our tradition so it must be silenced. If I were in a location of which the vast majority of people enjoy a tradition that doesn't hurt anyone, I would be respectful of it, but that's just how I was raised.
I can't blame the commission. We can't afford more lawsuits. Bornstein has done a good job of cleaning the slate of the lawsuits brought about by the BCME and the prior commission visionaries. This was small potatoes. Let him crawl back under his rock and we will take it up again when we are in better shape financially.
12:48--I "mis-heard?" Sure I did. And so what if "we give up control for what someone says?" It is FREE SPEECH...all two minutes of it. Two minutes can't bring down a city. It never stopped this commission in the past. Maxwell calling all of us liars when we defeated his general obligation bond as an example. And you go after Ryan Maier only? You just can't stand Szerdi losing. This should not be about politics.
12:52--He's going to sue the city anyway.
This was a 4/1 BAD decision. Thanks for your comments that were not political but well thought out and reasonable. No one wants law suits and if they made this decision because of that fear, then they really blew it... they should have listened to Glen Torcivia a little more closely.
Again the anonymous comment above blaming lawsuits on Susan Stanton is one big fat stupid visionary joke. I reALly hate these people who are so in love with themselves. I bet the first thing and the last thing they do during the day is look at themselves in the mirror. Any bets?
Continuing my 12:46 post
They were listening to the City Atty, and yes Maier offering up the rotating invocation by commissioners - that was good, it allows for an invocation and closes down the opportunity for radicals to disparage others' beliefs with their inflammatory rhetoric.
But Maier walked into a bee hive with his cavalier comments about sexual assault not being a big deal. It is! And many women were offended.
Lastly, I am not in former commissioner Szerdi's camp, nor is this political...
It's about operating the city in a manner so as not to expose us to lawsuits, frivolous or otherwise.
I listened at home at the same time as listening to the GOP debate. Consequently I missed a lot of both.
Will listen to it tomorrow when the audio is up.
You will always have lawsuits. Some people just like to sue. I hate caving into punks whether they are people like Greater Bay and this commission giving them $1.6 million or some Satanist who is just having fun watching this commission squirm. Sometimes you just have to do the right thing.
Just to be clear, you would not have settled with GB? The mock trials' juries showed that because of things sitting commissioners said and did, we would have been on the hook for up to $20 million. It was considered "bad faith".
But you would have rolled the dice?
Yes, GB was a sham and a con man. He would have folded like wet tissue had a lawsuit not been filed allowing him to delay and not-perform.
I understand your frustration, just not your judgement.
When you have mock trials put on by someone who first represented Greater Bay, you can say that and even trust his/this analysis or guess the outcome/odds of the situation?
The entire mentality in this administration is to "settle" not to do what is right. Torcivia believes that all cases are 50/50 so with that assumption, why did we spend so much on outside legal fees just to fold?
Back to invocations, the real subject of this blog--You should have honored the First Amendment of our Constitution. You should have honored our history. He says that you'll be sued anyway and you go down in history as the commission that suppressed and controlled an outside clerical inspirational message because you were afraid of him/her saying something of which you did not approve.
Sounds like North Korea to me.
" decision to follow the rotation process where each member on the dais could say his own invocation, have a moment of silent prayer or invite someone of their choosing to give an inspirational message "
How in the hell do these"representatives" of ours fit their overblown heads into the room? They can do the invocation better than our reverends,pastors ,priests,and representatives of any other beliefs? Even Chaz?
Scott, Pam ,Andy,Ryan what do you do when not in meetings? Brain surgery,pilot jets, serve on her Majesty's secret service???
I hope to have invocations on the steps of city hall before meetings
Katie Mcgiveron
Katie, I look forward to your invocations on the City Hall steps. I'll be there to protect you against the hordes of unbelievers and other open air preachers - at least on the steps of city hall the act of public proselytizing a religious message to crowds of people is allowed.
Preach baby preach! Just a like the prophet Jonah, who reluctantly obeys the command of God to go into the city of Nineveh and preach "yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown"
It'll be exhaustive, but just like George Whitefield's outdoor preaching in the 18th century made him a household name in England and Colonial America, you'll be making a name for yourself. Thanks for stepping up and leading the effort.
Lynn, you nor Katie, heck not even undertaker Dennis Dorsey can stroke a $20million dollar check - and neither should a fiscally responsible commission expose us to that kind of liability when prudent negotiating down to $1.6m insures we are off the hook for substantially more.
Is the guy still a dirt bag and did we get screwed - yes and yes - but it's all in the rear view mirror now and we all can move forward without that sharp guillotine blade that was hanging over our necks.
That can be your mantra (invocation?)for every legal situation going forward---give the asshole the money he wants.
Great leadership. And it's easy to do with someone else's money isn't?
10:21--you're a first class embarrassment.
You want to talk about great leadership?…
Isn't that how Trump got to be so damn rich… Using other peoples money for his investment schemes.
Oh, then he filed bankruptcy not once but many times, hmmm it seems to have work for him
Is it possible to get back on point? No need for your snarky liberal Democratic opinion regarding "leadership." Trump followed laws available to him. You don't like that law? Then I am sure Obama will just eliminate it for you.
Street preaching? Great, maybe that'll help with the 'lost' drug rehab zombies milling about with nothing to do.
Well, 11:01, why don't you get your BCE and BCME to solve the problem? Are you going to donate any food for a hungry person at Thanksgiving? Or will thanksgiving also be on the chopping block of holidays to celebrate? (for all the obvious liberal BS reasons--Indians, and all)
Thank you anon at 10:29, but I didn't make it clear. I am not going to preach. I plan to get a professional to preach!. Me preach? Who do I look like,a city commissioner?!?
Yea, you look like you would make a fine commissioner... Why don't you run?
Thank you, Lynn, for the post. It is ironic that your anonymous commenters continue to hack away at the very branch upon which they stand. Their right to act upon their own convictions have been secured by the influence of the Bible on America's founding. Our sense of community and treating others as we would like to be treated ourselves is from the Bible, as well as the free-market system. All this from the Bible has caused America, despite its numerous problems, to become the most successful human endeavor in more than 5,000 years of human history. Go figure...
On another subject, I would like to invite you to the website for the book series, The Asbury Triptych Series. The trilogy based on the life of Francis Asbury, the young protégé of John Wesley and George Whitefield, opens with the book, Black Country. The opening novel in this three-book series details the amazing movement of Wesley and Whitefield in England and Ireland as well as its life-changing effect on a Great Britain sadly in need of transformation. Black Country also details the Wesleyan movement's effect on the future leader of Christianity in the American colonies, Francis Asbury. The website for the book series is www.francisasburytriptych.com. Please enjoy the numerous articles on the website. Again, thank you, for the post.
Hi Al--thanks so much for posting here. I wish more people would speak out and take a stand on what's happening in America today. Just read a little about you on the web site you provided--www.francisasburytriptych.com. Your story on Reggie White was fascinating as was reading about you. Good luck with your books.
L.
Post a Comment